The Frances Widdowson interview and the CBC documentary on "residential school denialism"

And an important heads up on the Jim McMurtry case

By

James Pew

This week I ask readers to keep their eye on the case of Abbotsford, B.C., high school teacher Jim McMurtry. He is a teacher who, in  May of 2021, attempted to console students who were upset when headlines, which received international attention, claimed a mass grave discovery at a former Indian Residential School in Kamloops, BC.

Most Canadians will remember the sensational claims that a  mass grave of 215 children had been uncovered. And most would agree that the implication at the time was that the children said to be buried in Kamloops, were murdered and secretly cast in a mass grave, which was thought to be evidence of genocide. 

Stories of priests waking up six year old students in the middle of the night and forcing them to dig graves for their freshly murdered classmates, and other such macabre tales involving everything from barn hangings to furnace incinerations of children, were being circulated by activist groups, media and on social media. 

But there is no evidence that any of these stories are true. The mass grave turned out to be “soil disturbances” that share some of the characteristics of what ground penetrating radar might detect as single unmarked graves, not a mass grave. As of this date, no excavations have been done at Kamloops and no human remains have been verified. However, even though in the spring of 2021 the mass grave claim had been quickly corrected, the damage had already been done, and claims that the remains of children were buried in unmarked graves at Kamloops persists, when no such thing has been substantiated. Many children were upset because of the initial sensational media coverage, and Jim tried to, correctly, explain to his students that disease was the cause of the majority of deaths at Indian Residential Schools.

For this Jim was suspended by a woke school board and administration. The Abbotsford School District human resources director accused him of expressing an opinion that was ”inflammatory, inappropriate, insensitive and contrary to the district’s message of condolences and reconciliation.” Jim’s case has been commented on by Barbara Kay and Conrad Black. 

The latest update from Jim is that he expects to be officially fired this week. An outrageously unjust outcome, if it turns out that way, but typical of the standard woke practice of public shaming and canceling I’ve come to expect.

The CBC Documentary on “residential school denialism”

Over the weekend the CBC House podcast dedicated a segment to so-called “residential school denialism," in which I was surprised to find a somewhat balanced representation of different perspectives. However, it was not free of problems and biases (more on this below). Frances Widdowson was one of the academics interviewed by CBC journalist Olivia Stefanovich. Frances also posted a recording of the full unedited interview to her sound cloud.  Below I will outline some of the areas covered in the House segment, and discuss some important points found in the long form interview that CBC edited out of their House podcast. 

When Frances was asked what she thought of the claim that 200 unmarked graves of children were detected in Kamloops by ground penetrating radar, here response was as follows:

“I think it is a very improbable hypothesis…We have a very carefully orchestrated attempt by the Kamloops band and the Assembly of First Nations to imply that there are these clandestine burials of what was originally 215 children, and then downgraded to 200, because it was discovered that excavations had already been done in the area.”

A good place to look to verify what Frances is saying above is the Assembly of First Nations (AFN) December 2021 resolution (made well after the mass grave claim had been corrected) which said: “the mass grave discovered at the former Kamloops Indian Residential School reveals Crown conduct reflecting a pattern of genocide against Indigenous Peoples.”

A lot of  important content, like the quote above, is missing from the CBC podcast.  I’ve outlined below some important points that Frances made clear.

First, the priority should be to release Sarah Beaulieu's Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) report from the Kamloops site so independent experts can make their own assessments of her methodology. Second would be to re-open the RCMP investigation into the unmarked graves in Kamloops (Why did Murray Sinclair interfere with the initial RCMP investigation?). And third would be to excavate the site in Kamloops so it can be verified if the GPR detected human remains or not.

Where did “residential school denialism” come from?

According to Frances, the people most responsible for pushing the denialist tactic to suppress dissent from the dominant narrative on Indian Residential Schools (IRS), are three activist-academics: Kisha Supernant, Niigaan Sinclair, and Sean Carleton.

Frances explained that Kisha Supernant, as an archaeologist, is “someone who benefits from GPR activity related to unmarked graves.” And further explained that the above mentioned three activists (who pose as academics) have shown that they deliberately wish to silence anyone who disagrees with the activist approved rendition of IRS history.

Frances was asked what she thought of NDP MP Leah Gazan’s genocide motion that passed unanimously in the House of Commons, and her efforts to have “residential school denialism” legislated and prohibited as hate speech. She replied that Gazan is an example of totalitarianism, and that the most revered historian of the residential school system, JR Miller, does not believe the IRS system was genocide, nor do many other notable historians and scholars across the country.

Frances explained that the Canadian government's policies of assimilation that led to the creation of the residential schools were a response to the collapse of the fur trade. And that the implementation of policies of assimilation was done hastily and haphazardly and did cause harm. Regarding Kamloops, she said when people say that it provides evidence of genocide, that this is misrepresenting facts. She points out that the former Chief of the Kamloops Indian band, Chief Manny Jules, said his band would excavate, but hasn't yet!

Sean Carleton was also interviewed about the possibility of denialism being made hate speech. Surprisingly he disagreed with this tactic saying that it would only give denialists a bigger platform when they would point to the authoritarian measures employed to silence them. Also surprisingly, I agree with Carleton. First, so-called denialism should not be made into hate speech. And second, if it was, the government would, and should, be exposed for authoritarianism, and this should be used to help those fighting for free speech in every legal and principled way possible.

Here is a message regarding the CBC denialist documentary written by Frances and posted to her Facebook page:

“The most important thing, which was not mentioned in The House documentary…is that we need Sarah Beaulieu's Ground Penetrating Radar report to be released to the public. The Kamloops band first said that they would release it, and then reneged on this promise. We don't even need to demand excavations at this point. Sarah Beaulieu's report MUST be scrutinized by outside observers (NOT scholar activists like Kisha Supernant), if any of this is to be taken seriously. Once we have had independent experts look at Beaulieu's methodology, we can determine if she took into account the many other "disturbances" that have taken place on the site…Olivia Stefanovich has stated that she will follow up with this.”

In a radio documentary, the sound, music and language used can be incredibly suggestive and effective at leading the listener to a specific conclusion. The use of the word “strangers,” instead of the more generous “curious Canadians” or “researchers” says a lot. During the segment involving Supernant, there is a discrete but deliberate attempt to associate two negatives: “strangers,” and “denialists.”

Apparently Supernant has received emails and phone calls from “strangers” asking questions about her family's connections to residential schools. She reads some of the examples with an accusatory tone, but regardless of her sneer, the messages of concern sound like researchers who politely state facts and ask for clarification, something that Supernant should want to provide. It does not appear like anyone is harassing her, though a certain tone embedded into the production is used to imply that Supernant is going through something really bad. We are subtly led to believe that she is being victimized. The ominous swells of violins accompanied by an intensely penetrating piano line in rapid single note succession punctuate the darkness implied by those evil stranger denialists who dare to email Supernant with polite questions she could easily ignore, and probably did.

Supernant explains that she is already under so much emotional turmoil walking over potential unmarked graves of children who went missing, that when people ask her questions it makes her ground penetrating radar work more challenging. As previously established, Supernant is the victim here, or so she would have us believe. But this is just a cry-bully tactic where others are accused of being denialists, and she is said to be victimized by them. It is a totalitarian maneuver where the suppression of dissent is achieved through various tactics of suppressing speech.

Also interviewed was Eldon Yellowhorn, a professor of Indigenous studies at Simon Fraser University, who believes that some of the locations of suspected unmarked graves are former cemeteries where the wooden markers fell over and bio-degraded over time. There is nothing nefarious about finding unmarked graves in a former cemetery. But where there are questions, Eldon thinks excavation is necessary to know the truth.

“Perhaps we are dealing with graves you know and the only way we are going to be certain about that is if we excavate. There’s no two ways about it.” - Eldon Yellowhorn

Michelle Good, author of Five Little Indians, was also interviewed and expressed a common emotional but highly unreasonable sentiment that should not be taken seriously:

“I’m horrified when you see educated people, academic people, saying that they are not going to believe that these children died at these schools, until they start pulling bodies out of the ground.”

This is another tactic that is meant to block further investigation and prevent excavation. Don’t fall for this manipulative cry-bullying nonsense. All claims must be substantiated with  evidence, especially when a beloved nation is accused of genocide.

Below are both the unedited interview Frances did with Olive Stefanovich and the CBC House podcast segment on denialism:

• Soundcloud link to full length Frances Widdowson  interview by Olivia Stefanovich of the CBC - Interview with CBC (Olivia Stefanovich) about the residential schools by Frances Widdowson (soundcloud.com)

• Here is the CBC House documentary segment - What is residential school ‘denialism’ and should it be banned? | CBC News: The House | Live Radio | CBC Listen

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Thanks for reading. For more from this author read Frances Widdowson takes Lethbridge University (substack.com)

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