This is interesting. It flies in the face of everything I learnt in Highschool, College and University. All the lectures, courses and Professional Continous Development sessions for my work have never once mentioned anything like this. I'm looking forward to learning more as you post.
What is most important of all to do is to compare the findings on this new IRS Records site, nearly all recorded as they occurred, with the six volumes of reports and other findings of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) of Canada, much based on recollections made decades after the last school closed from a sample of former students with an axe to grind or pockets to line.
It is both morally unconscionable and a betrayer of the fundamental norms of Western justice to allow the alleged victims of oppressive behaviour total freedom to subjectively report on the nature of their oppression with little effort made to substantiate their accusations with the testimonies of objective observers intimately familiar with the same facts.
Truth can never be found and justice never serving in this way but this was exactly the way the biased and self-serving investigations of the IRSs operated from begining to end.
It's funny how it’s labelled denialism if one seeks to include all Indigenous voices and experiences in the big, complicated picture of the IRS, even while acknowledging that serious harms and abuses did occur. But it’s perfectly acceptable, in fact it’s “correct,” to amplify a certain subset of experiences while excluding, denying or discrediting all others, and that’s NOT considered denialism -- it’s declared to be the truth (as in, “the truth of residential schools” that we all need to educate ourselves on). We can study volumes and read dozens of IRS student memoirs, perhaps more intensively (and extensively) than many Indigenous spokespeople have, and yet the only acceptable conclusion we are allowed to draw (if we are to be considered satisfactorily “educated”) is that every child was harmed, most were abused, many were murdered, and none were benefited in any way.
Congratulations to Nina Green on this impressive and important website.
Nina Green’s work is essential in setting a true and balanced account of residential schools. All parliamentarians supported a motion Oct. 27 to label these schools genocidal. What claptrap.
Thank you for the validation of my year teaching at St. Bernard's, Grouard. Over the years I have collected various publications on residential schools which back up what Nina has researched. These were often of low print numbers and not widely distributed. This whole narrative is so sad for Canada, a country I emigrated to and have worked hard to contribute to. Eventually all will know the truth, as the saying goes, " Truth will out " Ben Buss, Duncan Vancouver Island.
There is a book of letters written by holocaust prison guards to their families. Where they sound positive and normal while horrors are ignored or downplayed. And some people suggest that the presence of a swimming pool at one of the camps; (and music performances at others) must mean nothing bad happened at scale. Those would be inaccurate conclusions.
In anything all evidence must be weighed. There should be a robust prosecution and the accused are entitled to a defence. The reason for this is to show when the final judgement is made, that there was procedural fairness. And in an effort to correct wrong in Canada, the prosecution may have been given carte blanche while no defence was made. This undermines trust in the fairness of conclusions. Which is why hearing any defence is valuable. It is not clear if the worst schools were representative or to what extent otherwise. For these reasons, even if one agrees with the trc, and disagrees with some of the reasoning of the defence, it is valuable to consider both if we are to value truth and reconciliation.
One of the first schools was welcomed by a chief. He envisioned two teepees, one where settlers would learn from his people and one where his would learn from them. The missionary genuinely lived the people and the chief appreciated it. If we are to honour that two canoes vision; all Canadians might learn how to bow-hunt deer while moving silently in the forest with moccasins. We might fish with hand made nets and be able to build traditional structures and sing songs. Yet none of these things are taught. Demoralization, shame and self flagellation are prioritized instead. This is not to say that anyone should look away from horror to protect one’s self from acknowledging ancestral wrong. But if our aim is to have love and respect on the other side of reconciliation a more holistic approach seems needed. If all there is to learn is “white man bad” and “capitalism bad” and “private property bad”; One can figure out who really is likely to be driving such messaging. And that too undermines trust which can slow positive change as it leaves people behind.
The difference is the extermination camps were just that - the purpose was extermination, and there are thousands of documents, eyewitness reports from hundreds of soldiers who liberated the camps as well as the survivors, movies, body parts, ashes, gas chambers, and the Nuremberg Trials as evidence. The Indian Residential Schools were named thus because that was their intent.... to be schools. They had basketball teams, choirs, dance troupes, because these are activities schools have. However, that doesn't mean there were not abuses. There have been proven cases of sexual assault and assault at these schools, people have been convicted and sentenced for these crimes. However, there have been no murder charges. Any accusation of murder at a school needs to be thoroughly investigated, currently there are rumours and accusations that hundreds of kids were murdered at these schools. However, there have been no forensic investigations of the Kamloops Orchard or other grave sites, and no evidence presented for murder other than the anecdotal, although it has been over a year and a half since the ground penetrating radar scans, which revealed "soil disturbances," which Ms. Green has researched. Excavations have not even started. The reluctance to gather forensic evidence seems very odd to me. Now Ms. Green has come up with names of students who died while attending Kamloops Residential School over the years, most of the lists give the reasons, most of the deaths were from sickness, most died in the hospital, and none from being murdered at the school. Will anyone consider this evidence?
Scrodinger’s cat: Perhaps there are no investigations because some don’t want to know what they’d find-as the current narrative has political expedience. Another tell was that the chiefs said in their own statement that they were not ‘’mass graves”. but a certain fellow appeared to erase their voices by making unfounded claims to the contrary. And many believed these were true without any fact checking.
People then accused you of being uncaring for having read and believed the words of the chiefs who are ‘the custodians of the land’ in question. There is a racist belief that indigenous people can’t be trusted to take responsibility for anything because white people existing over-rides indigenous agency entirely, as if one is a supreme race and the other something less than human. As if one is entirely good and the other evil.
People with this view tend to be most abusive and narcissistic. 50 years ago their militant ‘compassion’ would have supported state abuses of power for ‘their own good’ ‘to help the greater collective.’ The churches they collapsed are dead but the moral busybodyness that fell them is alive and well.
This is interesting. It flies in the face of everything I learnt in Highschool, College and University. All the lectures, courses and Professional Continous Development sessions for my work have never once mentioned anything like this. I'm looking forward to learning more as you post.
What is most important of all to do is to compare the findings on this new IRS Records site, nearly all recorded as they occurred, with the six volumes of reports and other findings of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) of Canada, much based on recollections made decades after the last school closed from a sample of former students with an axe to grind or pockets to line.
It is both morally unconscionable and a betrayer of the fundamental norms of Western justice to allow the alleged victims of oppressive behaviour total freedom to subjectively report on the nature of their oppression with little effort made to substantiate their accusations with the testimonies of objective observers intimately familiar with the same facts.
Truth can never be found and justice never serving in this way but this was exactly the way the biased and self-serving investigations of the IRSs operated from begining to end.
It's funny how it’s labelled denialism if one seeks to include all Indigenous voices and experiences in the big, complicated picture of the IRS, even while acknowledging that serious harms and abuses did occur. But it’s perfectly acceptable, in fact it’s “correct,” to amplify a certain subset of experiences while excluding, denying or discrediting all others, and that’s NOT considered denialism -- it’s declared to be the truth (as in, “the truth of residential schools” that we all need to educate ourselves on). We can study volumes and read dozens of IRS student memoirs, perhaps more intensively (and extensively) than many Indigenous spokespeople have, and yet the only acceptable conclusion we are allowed to draw (if we are to be considered satisfactorily “educated”) is that every child was harmed, most were abused, many were murdered, and none were benefited in any way.
Congratulations to Nina Green on this impressive and important website.
Nina Green’s work is essential in setting a true and balanced account of residential schools. All parliamentarians supported a motion Oct. 27 to label these schools genocidal. What claptrap.
Thank you for the validation of my year teaching at St. Bernard's, Grouard. Over the years I have collected various publications on residential schools which back up what Nina has researched. These were often of low print numbers and not widely distributed. This whole narrative is so sad for Canada, a country I emigrated to and have worked hard to contribute to. Eventually all will know the truth, as the saying goes, " Truth will out " Ben Buss, Duncan Vancouver Island.
Interesting.
There is a book of letters written by holocaust prison guards to their families. Where they sound positive and normal while horrors are ignored or downplayed. And some people suggest that the presence of a swimming pool at one of the camps; (and music performances at others) must mean nothing bad happened at scale. Those would be inaccurate conclusions.
In anything all evidence must be weighed. There should be a robust prosecution and the accused are entitled to a defence. The reason for this is to show when the final judgement is made, that there was procedural fairness. And in an effort to correct wrong in Canada, the prosecution may have been given carte blanche while no defence was made. This undermines trust in the fairness of conclusions. Which is why hearing any defence is valuable. It is not clear if the worst schools were representative or to what extent otherwise. For these reasons, even if one agrees with the trc, and disagrees with some of the reasoning of the defence, it is valuable to consider both if we are to value truth and reconciliation.
One of the first schools was welcomed by a chief. He envisioned two teepees, one where settlers would learn from his people and one where his would learn from them. The missionary genuinely lived the people and the chief appreciated it. If we are to honour that two canoes vision; all Canadians might learn how to bow-hunt deer while moving silently in the forest with moccasins. We might fish with hand made nets and be able to build traditional structures and sing songs. Yet none of these things are taught. Demoralization, shame and self flagellation are prioritized instead. This is not to say that anyone should look away from horror to protect one’s self from acknowledging ancestral wrong. But if our aim is to have love and respect on the other side of reconciliation a more holistic approach seems needed. If all there is to learn is “white man bad” and “capitalism bad” and “private property bad”; One can figure out who really is likely to be driving such messaging. And that too undermines trust which can slow positive change as it leaves people behind.
The difference is the extermination camps were just that - the purpose was extermination, and there are thousands of documents, eyewitness reports from hundreds of soldiers who liberated the camps as well as the survivors, movies, body parts, ashes, gas chambers, and the Nuremberg Trials as evidence. The Indian Residential Schools were named thus because that was their intent.... to be schools. They had basketball teams, choirs, dance troupes, because these are activities schools have. However, that doesn't mean there were not abuses. There have been proven cases of sexual assault and assault at these schools, people have been convicted and sentenced for these crimes. However, there have been no murder charges. Any accusation of murder at a school needs to be thoroughly investigated, currently there are rumours and accusations that hundreds of kids were murdered at these schools. However, there have been no forensic investigations of the Kamloops Orchard or other grave sites, and no evidence presented for murder other than the anecdotal, although it has been over a year and a half since the ground penetrating radar scans, which revealed "soil disturbances," which Ms. Green has researched. Excavations have not even started. The reluctance to gather forensic evidence seems very odd to me. Now Ms. Green has come up with names of students who died while attending Kamloops Residential School over the years, most of the lists give the reasons, most of the deaths were from sickness, most died in the hospital, and none from being murdered at the school. Will anyone consider this evidence?
Scrodinger’s cat: Perhaps there are no investigations because some don’t want to know what they’d find-as the current narrative has political expedience. Another tell was that the chiefs said in their own statement that they were not ‘’mass graves”. but a certain fellow appeared to erase their voices by making unfounded claims to the contrary. And many believed these were true without any fact checking.
People then accused you of being uncaring for having read and believed the words of the chiefs who are ‘the custodians of the land’ in question. There is a racist belief that indigenous people can’t be trusted to take responsibility for anything because white people existing over-rides indigenous agency entirely, as if one is a supreme race and the other something less than human. As if one is entirely good and the other evil.
People with this view tend to be most abusive and narcissistic. 50 years ago their militant ‘compassion’ would have supported state abuses of power for ‘their own good’ ‘to help the greater collective.’ The churches they collapsed are dead but the moral busybodyness that fell them is alive and well.
(Lived = loved)